which is exactly what will happen if we go off the fiscal cliff. >> and he wants to solve this problem. i really believe if we solve this problem, the economy is going to take off. >> but solve it in a big way. don't you agree, governor? >> absolutely. >> we have to go big on this. >> we can't kick the can down the road. sorry we're taking the show over from you. >> i needed a breather, anyway, you're chairman of the fix the debt group. democrats at this point, do you think they are -- dealing seriously enough with entitlement reforms? >> i think some of them like senator durbin are, but there are a lot of people on left of our party, the progressive wing of the party, very progressive wing that haven't come to grips with what i said at the beginning and what susan echoed. that if we're going to ask the republicans to raise rates and raise, i think somewhere around $1.3 trillion in revenue, then we've got to give them something that their base cares about so they can do it. so they can actually make the deal and close the deal. i don't think we're aware of that yet. before all of us. >